Sunday, July 1, 2012

Do you think this controller overreacted

Do you think this controller overreacted ?
Ok today i was climbing out of a small airport and i contacted Buffalo Departure to get flight following no big deal. About 20min later my instructor told me to ask him to do some touch and goes and KBUF i said ok So this is word for word what me and him said. Me: Buffalo Approach Diamond N71LV is in the north practice area at 3,500 request touch and go we have Charlie Him: N71LV stand bye Me : rodger Him: N71LV Just for your information when i tell you to stand bye i mean it don't say anything just pretty much shut up until i get back to you Me: ok sorry about that i am still learning Him: 1LV that's no excuse your instructor should be telling you what to say anyway proceed direct to buffalo ETC... Anyways i was really upset i think he overreacted I just wanted to hear what you guys thought. I understand he is really busy but i think it was still uncalled for. Comair: KBUF does get really busy and today it was pretty nice so their was tons of VFR traffic aside from all the airliners, also the controller sounds about 40 and i plan on meeting him soon for a tower tour Warbird pilot: my instructor was in the plane with me and he did say something to him which shut him up. I just don't think its fair for him to take advantage of me like that and not my instructor
Aircraft - 14 Answers
Random Answers, Critics, Comments, Opinions :
1 :
Wow. I've never faced a controller like that, maybe he was having a bad day? Even if they are busy, they're professionals, and are expected to act as so when on the job. That was uncalled for. Some controllers just don't like teenage pilots/new pilots.
2 :
Do you know what is going on in his personal lif e? Divocce, loss of money... death? JUST HAVING A BAD DAY!
3 :
Yeah, I think no matter how busy they are, ATC should maintain a reasonably professional attitude. Rogering a standby (ha ha) is not a big enough deal to get a bee in your bonnet about, least of all in such coarse terms. God knows, I've managed a few sillies in my time and ATC pulled me up about it, but with good-natured mockery at worst. Nothing like 'shut up until I get back to you'. The closest I've ever heard to this was when Tower was trying to get a real wet-behind-ears dude, presumably on an early solo, to approach for the correct runway. Traffic was heavy and this guy was weaving between the correct approach and the adjacent runway, creating havoc for all involved. Plus this guy's English was no so great, and this further complicated matters. After about a dozen heated exchanges, the call came over something like this: "All stations, if you have >not< already been cleared, go away! Come back in 10 minutes when we've scraped Alpha Bravo Charlie off the runway." But in this case, I would suggest the controller's frustration was completely justified.
4 :
While he is correct in saying that "standby" means "be quiet and don't say anything until I get back to you and don't even respond with rodger", he completely over-reacted. It's only buffalo we're talking about. It's not like you did that while on the ground at LGA during it's peak hours (in which case you would definitely get yelled at and they would have every right clogs the airways). Heck, lots of experienced airline pilots say "rodger" or acknowledge a standby in some manner. He's probably having just having a bad day. I wouldn't worry about. Whenever a controller flew off the handle at me, I always just kept my mouth shut. I heard controllers go nuts plenty of times for what seems like silly reasons. It's a tough job and every once in a while, everyone looses their cool, including controllers and pilots.
5 :
I think he overreacted, and I think you are overreacting to his overreaction. You may have keyed the mic and closed off the channel while he was trying to listen to someone else. New guys tend to hold the mic button longer than they need to, and the guys on the ground just hear heavy breathing. At least I used to hear that a lot when I was helping out at the RSU during flight training. I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm saying there is probably another side to this issue and you should consider it objectively. That's what professionals do. Relax.
6 :
Hey it's New York. That's a place where "&%#! You" and "Good Morning" can be used interchangeably. Don't sweat it.
7 :
he over reacted to a minor mistake id say he was real busy but he had time to bitch so that don't fit probably just having a bad day and the guy before u was an ass u got the fallout
8 :
You say, "Mark the tape and give me a phone number." Then you call the Watch Supervisor or the QA desk and discuss it with them. There is no excuse for that, particularly to a student pilot. Sounds like your instructor was in the plane with you, why did he do something?
9 :
I gave everyone a thumbs up for their answers, since they are all in agreement and I too, agree. It sucks to learn something the hard way, and you did just that. You certainly didn't deserve having your head bitten off. Life isn't always fair and please don't take it personally. You just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Similar things have happened to all of us, I'd bet.
10 :
I suggest you add "Student Pilot" to your transmission. I have found that just using those two magic words, controllers go out of their way to be of assistance. Chicago area being the exception, they HATE VFR traffic for some reason. Initial contact: Buffalo Approach , "N71LV, Student Pilot, VFR". {on initial contact, that is all the info you need to transmit} At that point, he might say "N71LV, Buffalo Approach " or like in your situation, "N71LV, stand by". IF he does say "stand by", that means he is busy doing something else. in essence, SHUT UP for now. No "roger" is necessary, no transmission on you part acknowledges you have understood his instruction.When he does come back to you with "N71LV, Buffalo Approach".. then transmit your request. "Buffalo Approach, N71LV is a (insert type of airplane) {simply saying Diamond is of no use to him. Like saying Cessna, He does not know if you are Shyhawk or a Citation, lots of difference in speed which is important information for the controller to know.} at the north practice area, 3,500, landing Buffalo ,touch and go, with Charlie. " I think the controller was wasting band width by chastising you in the manner he did but in the end he was giving you some "tough love". Hopefully you learned something on this day, that was the goal, wasn't it?:)
11 :
Mike: If you have not already done so, look up FAR 91.3. 'The pilot in command (your instructor in this case but you if you are soloing) is directly responsible for the operation of the aircraft and is the final authority as to its' operation.' I always taught my students to use this format when contacting ATC: Tell them who you are (N71LV) Where you are (North practice area at 3500 with Charlie) and what you are going to do. (Landing Buffalo, touch and go). Do not ask them for permission to do anything. Always TELL them what you are going to do. They will give you the active and wind conditions. They are there because of you. Without you they would be looking for work. You are their boss, not the other way around. Of course, you should try to comply with their instructions for the safety of your fellow pilots, but keep in mind that you are in command. 3500 hour CFIAI.
12 :
sounds like he is having a bad day.
13 :
Should have told the air traffic controller to shut up. What is wrong with a student pilot rogering a standby? There is no harm in it at all, so his response was absolutely out of order and he was probably taking it out on you because he was having a bad day - whether bad or not, his personal emotions should not get in the way of his professional job. His job is also to keep traffic apart - not to criticize pilots. Ski_pil0t, I love the quirkiness of the air traffic controller. I like it when the ATC go from boring dull people to stand up comedians. I read about one ATC who told a 747 to turn 45 degrees to the right for noise abatement reasons. The 747 pilot responded about being at FL330 and how noise abatement wasn't a big issue... and the ATC responded with something like "have you ever heard the noise made when a 747 and a 707 collide?" I also tune into regularly to try and catch those moments when conversations between pilots and ATC are comical or heated.
14 :
"You should acknowledge all callups or clearances unless the controller.....advises otherwise." I don't acknowledge an instruction to "Stand by." The instruction to "Stand by" is the controller's instruction not to acknowledge.

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